怎麼算日卦?

hmesker

[ 這篇文章最後由hmesker在 2005/08/22 04:56pm 第 1 次編輯 ]

對不起, 我的中國話真不好， 我是荷蘭人。我有一個問題﹕
現在我學習《河洛理數》，但是我不明白算日卦的辦法。我看了吳明修《易經推命學》， 他說“必須按月卦節氣方不至有誤”。但是， 一個節氣沒有三十日。我看不懂。
很多書美說到算日卦的辦法。 為什麼？
而且，我要用陰歷還是陽歷？
我希望你們能幫助我。 多謝。
祝，
Harmen.

銳山

[color=#006400]希望幫到閣下
https://forum.shusquare.com/non- ... 0729_1124711989.jpg

hmesker

銳山兄，
多謝,但是你的畫片跟我的書裡一樣. 我看不懂:-(. 我不明白了為什麼用節氣。多節氣沒有三十日，可是這個辦法用五卦六爻，一共三十爻三十日。你有例子嗎？
祝,
Harmen.

銳山

[color=#006400]hmesker兄您好,
有沒有網友可幫忙?如沒網友幫忙,過幾天我有空補上,希望由網友來交流發揮.
我看過閣下網站,你是荷蘭藉中國裔人?不知你們歐洲對我們中國易學及風水現在熾熱情度如何呢?可否說說?

wptan

<b><font color=red>版主模式: </font>用戶 wptan 3 → 4，
理由：威望加 1。
操作者: patton，本貼有威望操作記錄。</b>


Hi Harmen,
>陰歷還是陽歷
Use solar calendar rather than lunar one. 河洛理數 is derived from 四柱, which is solar-calendar based.
e.g.
月卦 for this month is according to 節氣：立秋, rather than 7th new moon. (Note: If it were lunar-calendar based, how to calculate 月卦 for a leap month ??)
So 日卦';s for the n-th day of a month, is the n-th day counting from the 節氣. It is approximately 30 days between 2 consecutive "節", so 30爻 for 日卦 over a solar month (starting from "節")
wptan

hmesker

有沒有網友可幫忙?如沒網友幫忙,過幾天我有空補上,希望由網友來交流發揮.

我有網友， 可是他們都不認識《河洛理數》。在這兒我們有一本英文書叫《The Astrology of I Ching》， 是一個《河洛理數》翻譯， 可是我認為這本書有很多錯誤。

你是荷蘭藉中國裔人?

對不起， 我認識很少漢字。我看不懂你的問題。“藉” 和 “裔” 是什麼意思？

不知你們歐洲對我們中國易學及風水現在熾熱情度如何呢?可否說說?

在歐洲裡很多人學易經，有很多西文的翻譯，有的好，有的劣。不過， 最多人不知道易經慧心， 就知道占卜用法為了富。
祝,
Harmen.

hmesker

wptan, thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

Use solar calendar rather than lunar one. 河洛理數 is derived from 四柱, which is solar-calendar based

But if I ask a Chinese for his 八字 they give me lunar based 八字. I agree that most forms of Chinese astrology use the solar calendar, and I would prefer that too, but then quite some material in the Heluo Lishu does not make sense to me. For instance, the text for the daily hexagram calculations says
"但按月卦節氣。如本年七月二日午時立秋。即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。"
If I understand correctly it says that "for instance, if 立秋 starts on the 2nd day of the the 7th month, the first line of the hexagram starts with the 2nd day." But the second day of what? I can only understand it as the 2nd day of a lunar month, after all, the second day of a solar month would not make much sense because every solar term starts with the first day, of course.
Also, in the book the months are referred to with numbers - 正月， 二月, 三月 etc. As far as I know solar months where never numbered, they were only mentioned by their names. I can only see it as that they refer to lunar months.
Leap months surely pose a problem, but so does the solar calendar when we look at the daily hexagrams. If I understand you correctly, the 30 lines of the 5 hexagrams should cover the complete solar month. But most solar months have more then 30 days. Yet the Heluo Lishu specifically says ';one line for one day';. How should we deal with this?
And: if the text talks about 正月, does it mean the first month of the year, or the first month of a person';s year from birthday to birthday, in other words started counting from his day of birth?
Thanks for your help!
Best wishes,
Harmen.

shenshufan

[ 這篇文章最後由shenshufan在 2005/08/23 01:15pm 第 1 次編輯 ]

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/22 08:16pm 發表的內容：
銳山兄
- - - - - - - - -
你有例子嗎？

<pre>
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(年柱) 6 甲子 1,6
(月柱) 2 乙丑 5,10
(日柱) 8 丙寅 3,8
(時柱) 7 丁卯 3,8

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(天數) 19 = ( 1 + 5 + 3 + 7 + 3 - 1 ) % 25 + 1 得 離(9)
(地數) 18 = ( 6 + 6 + 2 + 10 + 8 + 8 + 8 - 1 ) % 30 + 1 得 艮(8)

【元堂爻速見表】 (河洛理數卷之一)

(先天) 火山旅 (九三爻)    (后天) 地火明夷 (上六爻)

【易經卦辭】 (河洛理數卷之二)

【歲運詩訣】 (河洛理數卷之三)

【流年卦速見表】 (河洛理數卷之四)

【流月卦速見表】 (河洛理數卷之五)

【河洛參評秘訣】 (河洛理數卷之六)

【流年】 坤 六四爻 2005 虛04歲

【流月】  正月  比  九五爻 (立春起,雨水,驚蟄前)
【流月】  二月  坎  九二爻 (驚蟄起,春分,清明前)
【流月】  三月  觀  上九爻 (清明起,穀雨,立夏前)
【流月】  四月  漸  九三爻 (立夏起,小滿,芒種前)
【流月】  五月  益  初九爻 (芒種起,夏至,小暑前)
【流月】  六月 旡妄 九四爻 (小暑起,大暑,立秋前)
【流月】  七月 中孚 九二爻 (立秋起,處暑,白露前)
【流月】  八月  損  六五爻 (白露起,秋分,寒露前)
【流月】  九月 小畜 九三爻 (寒露起,霜降,立冬前)
【流月】  十月  需  上六爻 (立冬起,小雪,大雪前)
【流月】十一月  乾  九四爻 (大雪起,冬至,小寒前)
【流月】十二月  姤  初六爻 (小寒起,大寒,立春前)

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【歲運】

【流運】 旅 九三爻 2002-2010 虛01-09歲 (大象九年)
【流運】 旅 九四爻 2011-2019 虛10-18歲 (大象九年)
【流運】 旅 六五爻 2020-2025 虛19-24歲 (小象六年)
【流運】 旅 上九爻 2026-2034 虛25-33歲 (大象九年)
【流運】 旅 初六爻 2035-2040 虛34-39歲 (小象六年)
【流運】 旅 六二爻 2041-2046 虛40-45歲 (小象六年)

【流運】 明夷 上六爻 2047-2052 虛46-51歲 (小象六年)
【流運】 明夷 初九爻 2053-2061 虛52-60歲 (大象九年)
【流運】 明夷 六二爻 2062-2067 虛61-66歲 (小象六年)
【流運】 明夷 九三爻 2068-2076 虛67-75歲 (大象九年)
【流運】 明夷 六四爻 2077-2082 虛76-81歲 (小象六年)
【流運】 明夷 六五爻 2083-2088 虛82-87歲 (小象六年)

【流運】 旅 九三爻 2002-2010 虛01-09歲 (大象九年)

【流年】  旅  九三爻 2002 虛01歲
【流年】 小過 上六爻 2003 虛02歲
【流年】  豫  六三爻 2004 虛03歲
【流年】  坤  六四爻 2005 虛04歲
【流年】  比  九五爻 2006 虛05歲
【流年】  觀  上九爻 2007 虛06歲
【流年】  益  初九爻 2008 虛07歲
【流年】 中孚 九二爻 2009 虛08歲
【流年】 小畜 九三爻 2010 虛09歲

【流年】 坤 六四爻 2005 虛04歲

【流月】  正月  比  九五爻 (立春起,雨水,驚蟄前)
【流月】  二月  坎  九二爻 (驚蟄起,春分,清明前)
【流月】  三月  觀  上九爻 (清明起,穀雨,立夏前)
【流月】  四月  漸  九三爻 (立夏起,小滿,芒種前)
【流月】  五月  益  初九爻 (芒種起,夏至,小暑前)
【流月】  六月 旡妄 九四爻 (小暑起,大暑,立秋前)
【流月】  七月 中孚 九二爻 (立秋起,處暑,白露前)
【流月】  八月  損  六五爻 (白露起,秋分,寒露前)
【流月】  九月 小畜 九三爻 (寒露起,霜降,立冬前)
【流月】  十月  需  上六爻 (立冬起,小雪,大雪前)
【流月】十一月  乾  九四爻 (大雪起,冬至,小寒前)
【流月】十二月  姤  初六爻 (小寒起,大寒,立春前)

【流月】二月 坎 九二爻 (驚蟄起,春分,清明前) - (河洛理數)

【流日】 第01-06日  井  初爻起
【流日】 第07-12日  困  初爻起
【流日】 第13-18日  師  初爻起
【流日】 第19-24日  渙  初爻起
【流日】 第25-30日  節  初爻起
【流日】 第31-36日  比  初爻起

【流月】二月 坎 九二爻 (驚蟄起,春分,清明前) - (河洛理數)

  井  初六爻  井  九二爻  井  九三爻  井  六四爻  井  九五爻  井  上六爻
  困  初六爻  困  九二爻  困  六三爻  困  九四爻  困  九五爻  困  上六爻
  師  初六爻  師  九二爻  師  六三爻  師  六四爻  師  六五爻  師  上六爻
  渙  初六爻  渙  九二爻  渙  六三爻  渙  六四爻  渙  九五爻  渙  上九爻
  節  初九爻  節  九二爻  節  六三爻  節  六四爻  節  九五爻  節  上六爻
  比  初六爻  比  六二爻  比  六三爻  比  六四爻  比  九五爻  比  上六爻

【流日】 驚蟄起 第3日 井 九三爻 (河洛理數)

【流時】 子時 大過 九四爻
【流時】 丑時  夬  初九爻
【流時】 寅時  恆  六五爻
【流時】 卯時 小過 六二爻
【流時】 辰時  鼎  上九爻
【流時】 巳時 未濟 六三爻
【流時】 午時 大有 初九爻
【流時】 未時 大畜 六四爻
【流時】 申時  離  六二爻
【流時】 酉時 同人 九五爻
【流時】 戍時 噬嗑 六三爻
【流時】 亥時  震  上六爻

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【流月】二月 坎 九二爻 (驚蟄起,春分,清明前) - (河洛真數)

  井  九三爻 大過 九四爻  恆  六五爻  鼎  上九爻 大有 初九爻
  困  九四爻  解  六五爻 未濟 上九爻  睽  初九爻 噬嗑 六二爻
  師  六五爻  蒙  上九爻  損  初九爻  頤  六二爻  賁  九三爻
  渙  上九爻 中孚 初九爻  益  六二爻 家人 九三爻 同人 九四爻
  節  初九爻  屯  六二爻 既濟 九三爻  革  九四爻  豐  六五爻
  比  六二爻  蹇  九三爻  咸  九四爻 小過 六五爻  旅  上九爻
  井  九三爻 大過 九四爻  恆  六五爻  鼎  上九爻 大有 初九爻

【流日】 驚蟄起 第3日 恆 六五爻 (河洛真數)

【流時】 子時  鼎  上九爻
【流時】 丑時 大有 初九爻
【流時】 寅時  離  六二爻
【流時】 卯時 噬嗑 六三爻
【流時】 辰時  頤  六四爻
【流時】 巳時  益  九五爻
【流時】 午時  升  六四爻
【流時】 未時  師  六三爻
【流時】 申時  坤  六二爻
【流時】 酉時  復  初九爻
【流時】 戍時  頤  上九爻
【流時】 亥時  益  九五爻

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</pre>
月 means 節氣月，Neither 太陽月 (solar month) nor 太陰月 (lunar month)。

SSFan (神數迷)

shenshufan

下面引用由銳山在 2005/08/22 08:36pm 發表的內容：
hmesker兄您好,
你 是 荷蘭 藉 中國 裔 人?

荷蘭人 Hollander
中國人 Chinese
藉 nationality
裔 descendant
你 是 荷蘭 藉 中國 裔 人?
Are you a naturalized Hollander descended from Chinese ?
銳山 ask you this question since he is surprised by your Chinese (HanZi) post. That';s it.
By the way, your URL please.

wptan

Hi,
>>月 means 節氣月，Neither 太陽月 (solar month) nor 太陰月 (lunar month)。
Exactly. Maybe my presentation above is a bit vague. I';m refering to 節氣月 (not month as in Gregorian calendar), it is the month according to solar part of Chinese calendar, which is lunar-solar based.
wptan

hmesker

Dear Shenshufan,
Thank you very much for your replies. Your first post is amazing! Do you have a computer program for this?
Still a few questions though:
- when you calculate month hexagrams for a year, do they always start with 正月?
- If you calculate the month hexagrams for the first year of a person';s life, what is then the first month you calculate? Suppose the person is born in september, would you still start with 正月 (when the person was not yet born at that time)?
- Is 正月 the same as 立春, and 二月 the same as 驚蟄, etc.?
- When you calculated the day hexagrams for the second month, 二月 坎 九二爻, you started with
【流日】 第01-06日  井  初爻起
Does this mean it starts with the first day of the 節氣? Is this always the case?
Sorry to bother you with so many questions, but I think I am finally getting somewhere. If you could send me more examples (preferably with the Western date for which you make them, then I can try to recalculate them myself and learn from that) I would really appreciate that. You can also e-mail them to me: harmen [at] itcn.nl. Thanks!
Thanks for explaining 銳山';s question, again I learned something! I am not Chinese, just a plain Dutch guy. The URL of my website is here: www.itcn.nl. More info about me here http://www.itcn.nl/serendipity/pages/aboutme.html
多謝,
祝,
Harmen.

shenshufan

[ 這篇文章最後由shenshufan在 2005/08/24 09:03am 第 1 次編輯 ]

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/23 02:49am 發表的內容：
But if I ask a Chinese for his 八字
they give me lunar based 八字.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"但按月卦節氣。如本年七月二日午時立秋。
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。"

All of the 八字 are based on 節氣月，Neither 太陽月 nor 太陰月。
太陽月 Jan (1/1-1/31) - - - -Dec (12/1-12/31)
太陰月 from a new moon via full moon until next new moon.
節氣月 from a 節入 via 中氣 until next 節入

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/23 02:49am 發表的內容：
If I understand correctly it says that "for instance, if 立秋 starts on the 2nd day of the the 7th month, the first line of the hexagram starts with the 2nd day." But the second day of what? I can only understand it as the 2nd day of a lunar month, after all, the second day of a solar month would not make much sense because every solar term starts with the first day, of course.

【流月】  七月 中孚 九二爻 (立秋起,處暑,白露前)
7th month means 7th 節氣月
But the second day of what?
The 1st  day start from 立秋 + 0 day untill 立秋 + 1 day
The 2nd day start from 立秋 + 1 day untill 立秋 + 2 day
The 3rd  day start from 立秋 + 2 day untill 立秋 + 3 day

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/23 02:49am 發表的內容：
Also, in the book the months are referred to with numbers - 正月， 二月, 三月 etc. As far as I know solar months where never numbered, they were only mentioned by their names. I can only see it as that they refer to lunar months.

Solar month can be numbered as well as refered by name

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/23 02:49am 發表的內容：
Leap months surely pose a problem,

We don';t have leap month in 節氣月

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/23 02:49am 發表的內容：
but so does the solar calendar when we look at the daily hexagrams.
If I understand you correctly, the 30 lines of the 5 hexagrams should cover the complete solar month. But most solar months have more then 30 days. Yet the Heluo Lishu specifically says ';one line for one day';. How should we deal with this?

節氣月 might have 29 days or 31 days
How should we deal with this?
There are several different ways to solve this problem.
A good exercise for everybody. Try to solve it yourself.

下面引用由hmesker在 2005/08/23 02:49am 發表的內容：
And: if the text talks about 正月, does it mean the first month of the year, or the first month of a person';s year from birthday to birthday, in other words started counting from his day of birth?

Suppose the new term of 節氣月 answer all of your questions.
It is my honor to introduce a new term of 節氣月 to the world.
It is 01:45 am now, I have to go to bed.

SSFan (神數迷)

hmesker

I';m sorry, I think I am confusing things a bit by talking about ';solar months';, when I mean 節氣.

All of the 八字 are based on 節氣月，Neither 太陽月 nor 太陰月。

There are no astrology systems which use the lunar calendar? Is it safe to assume that when Chinese astrology books talk about 八字 they always refer to the solar calendar?

【流月】  七月 中孚 九二爻 (立秋起,處暑,白露前)
7th month means 7th 節氣月
But the second day of what?
The 1st  day start from 立秋 + 0 day untill 立秋 + 1 day
The 2nd day start from 立秋 + 1 day untill 立秋 + 2 day
The 3rd  day start from 立秋 + 2 day untill 立秋 + 3 day

I still don';t get this. Why did in the example given in the 河洛理數 the first line of the hexagram start with the 2nd day? And still, the second day of what? In the example you gave the hexagram started with the first day (【流日】 第01-06日  井  初爻起), that seems more logical to me.

節氣月 might have 29 days or 31 days
How should we deal with this?
There are several different ways to solve this problem.
A good exercise for everybody. Try to solve it yourself.

I';m sorry, but that does not help me. I can think of several ways to solve this, I can even think of other ways to derive at the daily hexagrams, but that is not my concern. I want to use the system in the original way, as it is intended to be. How does the 河洛理數 want me to deal with this? Or doesn';t it have an answer to that? (if so that is also fine, but then at least I know that)

節氣月 answer all of your questions.

Maybe, but I don';t understand its answers.
Best wishes,
Harmen.

wptan

Hi hmesker,
ShenShuFan has explained in great details. Let me eloborate a little bit more.
Chinese Calendar is lunisolar: year is based on solar cycle (~365.25 days) with 4 seasons, yet lunar cycles are also incorporated into the calendar (12 new moons in 1 solar year, 13 new moon in leap year). So there is 2 ways to define month within 1 year, one basing on solar motion (節氣月, starts with a "節" date, e.g. "申月", the 7th 節氣月, starts on 立秋), the other basing on lunar cycle ( "七月", the 7th lunar month, is the 7th new moon). Usually (not in leap year), the same numbered 節氣月 and lunar month has overlapping period.
"但按月卦節氣。如本年七月二日午時立秋。
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。"
如本年七月二日 午時立秋。
-- 2nd day of 7th lunar month (of chinese lunisolar calendar) is solerterm 立秋.
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。"
- the date: Noon of 2nd day (of 7th lunar month) is the start of next 節氣月 (most probably "申月"), and 水雷屯卦初九爻 is the daily hexagram for that day
See, the lunar and solar part of the Chinese lunisolar calendar is both involved here at the same time.
In 河洛理數 text, the "solar" month 節氣月 is sometimes used interchangeably with the "lunar" counterpart.
e.g. in vol2
晉卦
《乾宮》，四世卦，屬二月。....
It should be 卯月 (節氣月 terminology), yet written as 二月 (typically a lunar month terminology, vague!!).
On text of 河洛理數, "月" sometimes refer to 節氣月, sometimes lunar one.
Hope it helps clarifying a bit.
wptan

hmesker

Chinese Calendar is lunisolar: year is based on solar cycle (~365.25 days) with 4 seasons, yet lunar cycles are also incorporated into the calendar (12 new moons in 1 solar year, 13 new moon in leap year). So there is 2 ways to define month within 1 year, one basing on solar motion (節氣月, starts with a "節" date, e.g. "申月", the 7th 節氣月, starts on 立秋), the other basing on lunar cycle ( "七月", the 7th lunar month, is the 7th new moon). Usually (not in leap year), the same numbered 節氣月 and lunar month has overlapping period.

Ah yes, that was indeed something that confused me and made it hard to understand what was referred to, the fact that the 7th 節氣月 overlapped with the 7th lunar month. Thanks for clarifying.

"但按月卦節氣。如本年七月二日午時立秋。
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。"
如本年七月二日 午時立秋。
-- 2nd day of 7th lunar month (of chinese lunisolar calendar) is solerterm 立秋.
即水雷屯卦初九爻。即將初二日午時開始。"
- the date: Noon of 2nd day (of 7th lunar month) is the start of next 節氣月 (most probably "申月"), and 水雷屯卦初九爻 is the daily hexagram for that day

Aaaaah, NOW I get it! The book referred to the 2nd day of the 7th LUNAR month, even though the hexagram for the month is the hexagram of a 節氣月 (I do not dare to say ';solar month'; anymore). Right?
This does not take away the problem of the amount of days in a 節氣月 and how to link this with the system for computing the daily hexagrams, but at least it takes away a big problem for me. Thanks.

See, the lunar and solar part of the Chinese lunisolar calendar is both involved here at the same time.
In 河洛理數 text, the "solar" month 節氣月 is sometimes used interchangeably with the "lunar" counterpart.
e.g. in vol2
晉卦
《乾宮》，四世卦，屬二月。....
It should be 卯月 (節氣月 terminology), yet written as 二月 (typically a lunar month terminology, vague!!).
On text of 河洛理數, "月" sometimes refer to 節氣月, sometimes lunar one.

And THAT is what is confusing. But thanks for helping me out. This really helps. Thank you very much.
Best wishes,
Harmen.